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|Starr Kilian||Error in bio for Victor Kilian|
First, thank you so much to "Anonymous" for setting up this thoughtful memorial page for Victor Kilian.
For the record, the bio contains an error repeated on Wikipedia and probably other sites too about Victor losing an eye as a result of being hit by John Wayne in a movie scene in 1942. It seems John Wayne did actually hit Victor in a movie scene (or rehearsal), but Victor most certainly never lost an eye from this incident or any other! His eyesight was not good, but no doubt was from cataract(s) and not the incident with John Wayne. I got to know Victor ("Vic") in my Hollywood High School days in the mid-1960's and onward.
Starr Kilian, grandson of Victor Kilian
|Micah ||Christopher Reeve|
would you know where his ashes are interred or scattered?
Added by Micah on Feb 04, 2012 1:06 AM
|Mike||Karen Elisa Grammer|
Karen's middle name is Elisa.
Added by Mike on Aug 04, 2009 3:22 PM
|Mike||Karen Alicia Grammer|
Although he dedicated his autobiography "So Far" to her, Kelsey Grammar seldom speaks of his sitter's tragic death. Here is one interview from 2001:
Larry King Live
The Unsinkable Kelsey Grammar
Aired March 16, 2001 - 9:00 p.m. ET
KING: Now, your sister. She gets raped and murdered. How old you were you then?
GRAMMER: Then I was 20. She was 18. KING: You were close with her.
GRAMMER: We were very close, yes, very close.
KING: Where you were at 20? Were you in school?
GRAMMER: Actually I'd just been thrown out of Juilliard.
KING: Thrown out.
GRAMMER: Oh, thrown out. Not bodily, but I was disinvited.
KING: Poor grades?
GRAMMER: No, poor attendance, really. I, the second year of Juilliard, it being a kind of a conservatory experience...
KING: Hard to get into.
GRAMMER: Yes, very hard, and I was fortunate to get in, and I value the experience, but after the first year, where you spend most of the time sort of sitting on the floor and learning how to breath, and vibrate, they start trying to teach you how to act. And I didn't like my acting teacher that much. He seemed a lot more interested in the girls and, you know, I don't know what was going on, so I quit, yes. Quit, and, you know, they said, "You've got to go."
KING: So, when she, when this tragedy happened to her, you were where? Were you in Fort Lauderdale?
GRAMMER: I was in Fort Lauderdale, right.
KING: Back home.
GRAMMER: Yes, right, I was back home.
KING: How did you learn of this?
GRAMMER: Well, I had spoken to Karen.
KING: She was 18.
GRAMMER: She was 18 at the time, she was about to turn 19.
KING: Were you like a big brother to her?
GRAMMER: Yes, oh definitely.
KING: She was close to her grandfather too?
GRAMMER: Well, ever since -- yes, ever since Gordon died I kind of took over, so she was in Colorado Springs. And we spoke on the phone. Her birthday was coming up July 15, we spoke on July 1. She said she was going to be coming home probably around the 12th.
KING: Going to school there?
GRAMMER: Nope, she had actually taken a year off of school. She had gone to Barry College a year early, actually, because she graduated a year early, and she had done well, but then thought she wanted to take some time for herself, so she went up to Colorado Springs and was working, and holding down a job, and kind of had a boyfriend. But July 1 came around. Fourth of July, I tried to call her to say happy Fourth of July, it was always a big holiday in our family because we're kind of, you know, flag waving Americans. And I couldn't reach her. And around the 7th, after trying for the next several days to get in touch with her, I finally called the police department there, and about three or four hours later a couple detectives from the Pompano Beach [Broward County, Florida] police department came and knocked on the door and asked if there was anybody sick in the house. I thought, "Well, that's kind of interesting." Because frankly, at first, I thought they were there to arrest me because I had been driving without a license for like, two years. But then they said, "Would you mind stepping outside." Because my grandmother was there, and she'd had some health trouble. And they took me to the car, opened up a book on the hood of the car, and I saw Karen Alicia Grammar written there, and they said, "We have a Jane Doe that we believe is your sister in Colorado Springs."
KING: You had to fly out there?
GRAMMER: Flew out, and identified her. It was a tough day, and -- it's funny...
KING: How do you get through that?
GRAMMER: It was hard. It was hard. You just do, you know, you put one foot in front of the other.
KING: Did they find that person?
GRAMMER: They found the three of them actually. There was three boys that, one was a little older, but they were, you know, teens, and they had killed seven [correction: four] people. Karen had been the sixth [correction: third] person. They got them and got the death penalty. I don't think they were ever executed.
[correction: Winslow Watson was murdered by Michael Corbett. Larry Dunn was granted immunity for his testimony against both Corbett and Glenn. Although convicted on lesser crimes, Dunn was never tried for the rape and murder of Karen Grammar. Both Glenn and Corbett were handed death sentences, but their sentences were commuted to life imprisonment after a Supreme Court ruling that overturned capital punishment],
KING: You would have any excuse, at this point, to go nuts.
GRAMMER: Yes, sure.
KING: What did you do?
GRAMMER: I went, well, I did go nuts in my own way. I got, I was, I guess probably clinically depressed the following year. I went back to New York, and started trying to get a job as an actor, and did do some waiting tables. And I spent a lot of time watching old movies, and on occasion, I would get up, because I was very poor at the time, I'd walk to the refrigerator door and open it up, and look inside. Of course there was nothing, but then I'd realize, when I closed the door, that I had been standing there for about an hour. I was not happy.
KING: What got you out of it?
GRAMMER: I just, well, like I said, I just kept putting one foot in front of the other, and...
Added by Mike on Jul 27, 2009 4:14 PM
|Mike||Karen Alicia Grammer|
Please add these details to you posting:
In 1975, Kelsey Grammer's younger sister, Karen, was beaten, raped, and stabbed to death by Freddie Glenn, Winslow Watson and Larry Dunn, after a botched robbery. Glenn is currently serving his sentence at the Bent County Correctional Facility in Las Animas, Colorado. His death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment after a Supreme Court ruling that overturned captal punishment.
Karen's murder is detailed in two recent books (referenced below). The two book differ slightly in the details, but the basic facts are that Glenn and the two other men attempted to rob a Red Lobster restaurant in Colorado Springs. They left without any money, but on the way out they grabbed Karen Grammer, 18, who was waiting for her boyfriend to finish work, because -- they would later claim -- they feared she might be able to identify them.
After robbing two convenience stores, the men took Grammer to an apartment rented by Glenn and Michael Corbett (Corbett was not present that night), where over the next four hours they took turns repeatedly raping her. After promising to take her home, the men sat her in the car, put a cloth bag over her head, drove a short distance and let her out at a nearby mobile home park. According to Dunn, she pleaded for her life, offering to do anything they wanted were they to let her live, but Glenn stabbed her in the throat. She bled to death from her wounds, but not before she had crawled 50 yards to the trailer park manager's office where she left a bloodied handprint on the wall, just inches below the door bell she tried deperately to reach. She collapsed and died on the doorstep.
Hello Charlie: Letters from a Serial Killer
by Charlie Hess and Davin Seay
Simon & Schuster, 2008
Pages 29, 30
No Higher Calling, No Greater Responsibility
by John W. Suthers (Forward by Colorado Governor Bill Ritter)
Fulcrum Publishers, 2008
Pages 13, 14
Added by Mike on Jul 25, 2009 11:45 AM
Your very good bio of Malcolm Forbes, with whom I worked raising money for Princeton University, has a typo. You wrote that his net worth was between $400 million and $1.25 million -- I'm sure you meant "billion." I think Malcolm would have been amused. He said that anyone who knows his exact net worth probably doesn't have much money.
Added by Tigress on Apr 11, 2009 1:40 PM
|Tonya Sapp Hames||Karen Grammer|
Karen's middle name was Alicia. Thought you might like to add that to her memorial page. Also, here's a link to a really good article about her & her murder that you might want to check out: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/karen_grammer/index.html.
Hope this is helpful!
Tonya Sapp Hames
Find A Grave County Keeper
Dorchester Co., SC