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sharon hoblit (#47433420)
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Messages left for sharon hoblit (4)[Leave Message]
Lynn Marie Vint
RE: Friedens cemetery
Hi Sharon,

Black Jack and Florissant are located next to each other in north St. Louis County. Black Jack would be the smaller of the two.

Black Jack does not have its own post office or zip code. Florissant is bigger, has a post office and is located close to Black Jack. As a result, the people in Black Jack have to use the Florissant zip code even though the two are actually separate municipalities.

It's pretty common to find more than one municipality sharing a zip code in St. Louis County. It often causes confusion for non-natives.

Lynn
Added by Lynn Marie Vint on Feb 03, 2014 1:54 PM
Lynn Marie Vint
RE: Friedens cemetery
Hi Sharon,

The answer to your question involves an explanation about the difference between the city of St. Louis and St. Louis County.

The city of St. Louis is NOT located in St. Louis County. The city is actually not in any county at all. The city and county are geographically and politically separate. The city has its own government and mayor; and the county has a completely separate government.

Making things even more confusing, the city of St. Louis is geographically surrounded by St. Louis County to the north, west and south. (The eastern border of the city of St. Louis is the Mississippi River.)

Bellefontaine Cemetery (no Neighbors in the name) is located in the city of St. Louis--not in St. Louis County. Friedens Cemetery is located in north St. Louis County--not in the city of St. Louis at all.

The county is made up of dozens of small towns and municipalities. Friedens is located in the town of Bellefontaine Neighbors. Friedens just happens to be in the part of Bellefontaine Neighbors that is located close to the border between St. Louis County and the city of St. Louis.

People commonly refer to the part of the county where Friedens is located as North County in order to differentiate it from West County and South County.

While the only town or municipality in the city of St. Louis is St. Louis itself, ALL of St. Louis County is subdivided into towns, small cities and municipalities. North County includes towns such as Bellefontaine Neighbors, Black Jack(location of Salem Lutheran Cemetery), Florissant, Ferguson, Berkeley and several others.

St. Louis County towns are like pieces of a puzzle that fit tightly up against each other. They border each other geographically, but have completely separate local governments and mayors.

I'm sure that's way more than you wanted to know, but it's the only way to explain the difference between Bellefontaine and Friedens cemeteries. Hope this wasn't too confusing and managed to answer your question somewhere along the line!

Lynn
Added by Lynn Marie Vint on Feb 02, 2014 9:43 PM
Lynn Marie Vint
RE: memorial#44100483
Sharon,

I went back with your additional info and checked my Salem record book again...still no death records for Conrad or his wives. However, I realized in reviewing the marriage records that there was actually more information there than what I told you earlier. (Weird spacing made me not realize that the entry also included what was written below it.)

There were TWO bans dates instead of the usual ONE: 22nd Sun in Trin & 1st Sun in Advent in local.

The marriage date was listed as follows: 27 Nov 1859 1st Fri after Advent.

That makes the 1859 death date in childbirth for Elisa/Louisa seem a bit early, especially since she is listed as the mother for children born after that.

Also, the parents for Conrad and Elisa/Louisa WERE listed. The book gives his father as Ernst H. Linnemann of Lippe, Herfurt, Prussia, and hers as Johann Graff of Tor Bauchauchen, Hesse. Again, the weird spacing made me miss those the first time around.

It sure seems like Conrad and his wives should have been buried at Salem. I have photographed every stone there and did not find one for any of them. I will go back and look through the few left-over pictures I have that I had to categorize as unreadable and check them again. Sometimes, when you know a specific name for which you are looking, it helps you decipher the engraving.

I'm also going to go back through the records and look for the children of Conrad and see if I can put together a timeline. That may narrow down a death date for Elisa/Louisa and a re-marriage date for Conrad.

I will get back to you.

Lynn
Added by Lynn Marie Vint on Feb 11, 2013 12:37 PM
Lynn Marie Vint
RE: memorial#44100483
Hi Sharon,

Thanks for your kind words!

I checked my Salem Lutheran Church book for information about Conrad and his wife. There's nothing listed for either one under deaths, so that makes me think they might not have been living in St. Louis County by the time they died.

I did find a marriage record for Conrad at Salem Lutheran. In case you don't have it, it reads:

----------

Groom/Parents: LINDEMANN, Johann Friedrich Conrad, 4th. es

Bans date: 22nd Sun in Trin

Marriage date: 1st Sun in Advent in local

Bride/Parents: GRAFF, Elisa, 2nd. ed

Witnesses: Adolph & Clara (Benne) Rasche

----------

A bans date was the date when they publicly announced their upcoming marriage. They must have been over 21 when they married, since no parents are listed for either one. 4th es means Conrad was the 4th eldest son in his family, and 2nd ed after Elisa's name means she was the 2nd eldest daughter in hers.

No year was given for their marriage, but it was listed in the section for marriages that took place between 1850 and 1881. They had a baby who died in infancy in October 1863. The first child they had who was baptized at Salem was born in 1866 and their last was in 1882.

By the way, Conrad's name is listed as Konrad on some records, and his wife is listed as Elisa, Elisabeth, Elise, Marthe, Martha and Marthargata Graf on various church records.

Two of the Lindemann boys, Joseph and William, were also married at Salem, so that means the family was associated with the church for quite a while.

The Missouri archives have a couple of Civil War cards on file for a Conrad Lindeman who enlisted in Florissant. I would think that would be him.

If you cut and paste the following on your address bar, it should take you to the site where you can click on View Details, then click on View Record to see the actual cards:

http://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/soldiers/results.asp?txtName=lindeman,%20conrad&selConflict=All&txtUnit=&rbBranch=

If that doesn't work, go to the Missouri Archives and search the name Conrad Lindeman. (They have it spelled with one n.)

That's all I could find on Conrad and Elizabeth Lindemann. Hope it helps. If you ever find out more, please be sure to let me know.

Lynn
Added by Lynn Marie Vint on Feb 10, 2013 8:44 PM
 

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